User talk:Zoney/Archive07

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Hello, this is the seventh of my archive pages (see also my other archives). Please leave responses even to this page, on the main talk page where I and others will see them! Thanks! zoney talk 13:35, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the warm welcome[edit]

as the headline says.... but thats kind of typical irish, isn't it?

I also took the wikiaddict test thingy..and got 81 points straight on I'm trying to improve my english in this way, and so started right on with the Sister Fidelma article..

Lectonar 12:03, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Culture of Greece[edit]

Culture of Greece is this week's Collaboration of the week. Please come and help it become a featured-standard article.

Econ of Ireland[edit]

This is a whole can of worms, I'm afraid (see my comments on the talk page. It would be a pity if the article failed of FAC because of the title, but really Republic of Ireland is not quite right. What do you think we should do? Filiocht 12:41, Nov 11, 2004 (UTC)

Yeah, I know. It's getting messy. Still, at the end we should have at least one article available to get featured. There's some work/organisation to be done though. zoney talk 13:20, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
For the moment I'd say leave things as you have rearranged them for now and hope that nobody questions the status of the Republic. If we make ith 20th century, all the N Ireland stuff would have to be addressed. Then the bigger EoI article can be addressed later. Filiocht 13:43, Nov 11, 2004 (UTC)
Maybe we need to ask CGorman about this? Filiocht 14:12, Nov 11, 2004 (UTC)
I've apologised for dragging up such a mess, although I think I can blame the page move for instigating the whole thing! zoney talk 16:09, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
It seems a bit hasty, right enough, in hindsight. Still, it's a good article in search of a title. Filiocht 16:15, Nov 11, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the warm welcome (yes, another one!)[edit]


Just wanted to thank you for the warm welcome. Really appreciated it. Very Irish.

Slan go foill,



I certainly don't blame you for voting Keep. I expect that some folks will want more kept than I do. What my comment concerned was the entrenched warfare that has broken out, over and over again, on VfD. You've not been one to participate, but the lines are well drawn. Anthony's reappearance on VfD has probably set a lot of jaws and a lot of teeth on edge, because he does vote "Keep" to everything, regardless. The bad thing that deleters do is call keepers immature or fans. The bad thing that keepers do is imply (as Anthony states) that anyone who wants to delete is some kind of monster who is interested in destroying information, plus the hopes and dreams of innocent contributors. When you said "no need for all this delete delete delete," I only wanted to gently suggest that we all try not to fall back into that.
I vote delete more often than keep, because most of the people who nominate articles have done a proper job: the articles they nominate fail the deletion guidelines. Where I get irritated is where some people have gone so far as to suggest that the mere nomination of an entry is wrong. Unless the nomination is real persecution (user wars, e.g.), it's not wrong to make a nomination. I almost wish more mistakes were made in nomination so that I could vote "keep" more often.

I also have a little irritation, personally, when people suggest that failing to exert an heroic rescue attempt is bad faith or bad character. I think it's great when people figure out new ways to redirect, when people find new stuff to supply wants, but I also think those are ancillary efforts. Where possible (e.g. my suggestion on the Exploding Wales thing), it should be done, but no one should be accused of being a monster for not doing so. I thought your comment crossed from saying that a helpful thing could be done to suggesting that other people were somehow bad for not doing it. That's what I meant by being respectful of one another.

In the past, I was not one who had a problem with Anthony, either, but I'm getting convinced that he actually is trolling, that his purpose is to rile up folks. His first words are often "blatant abuse of": that's the kind of language intended to elicit a violent response. That said, I have tried to be respectful even when describing him to a new user on the VfD page. I hope I can do better than that, and I hope we all can, and I certainly don't want to label anyone any way. Forgive me if it seems that I have done so. I meant only to "lash the vice and not the man" and only that once. Geogre 00:49, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Train toilets[edit]

Posted on User:ClockworkTroll

Hi there,

I recently rewrote the passenger train human waste disposal, I'm not sure if you saw this before posting to the talk page. It now does not go into specifics for the US, merely noting that the traditional method (i.e. dump on the tracks) is still used in most of the world (except for newer stock). While it's hard to discern the exact situation in the Western world (without checking each country), some Western countries definitely still have it (certainly here in Ireland we have "dump it" trains, I presume Britain also), so along with the developing world, the traditional method is still used in most of the world (I'd actually be reasonably confident in saying most of the Western world, but that is less certain).

zoney talk 23:01, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

  • You're right - I didn't see your changes (which were excellent, I might add). Similarly, when you wrote on my talk page, I had already retracted my hasty remarks. It looks like our thoughts crossed in th email. :) ClockworkTroll 23:13, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)


Hi Any ideas what to do about this week's ICTOW? Filiocht 13:10, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)

AoI is fine by me. Filiocht 15:06, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)


Zoney, thanks for your "yes" vote on my RFA. I'm looking forward to helping the other admins in keeping things tidy here. Joyous 00:11, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)


Hi Zoney, I see the Irish fraternity have Architecture of Ireland as this weeks collaboration, I've made the odd tweak, but as I'm in no way Irish don't like to really touch it; but you might find Richard Cassels of use. I'm planning to expand it, but have only just put it on the site, it probably wants a copy-edit too, but I've looked at it for too long to see what's in front of me, so need to leave it alone for an hour. Good luck with the collaboration. Giano 15:10, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Wow, thanks! That should prove useful! zoney talk 15:14, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Irish Universities[edit]

Regarding the Irish universities list i have two points to raise:

1) MIC - this "college of education" should, i believe, not be placed under UL because whilst their is an agreement between the college and university the two are legally separate institutions like many colleges of education in Ireland (who because of the religious nature want to be legally distinct from essentially secular universities) and the list should maintain this distinction otherwise most of the colleges of education and some other colleges will have to be placed under the universities list growing it to an excessive and misleading lenght.
2) The "Limerick School of Art and Design" is this not "LIT School of Art and Design" and therefore as such a faculty or school of the college, again not a distinct legal entity in its own right - if this is true then the school should not be listed in this page - the article is the right place for it - in the case of CIT the school and college are - and where previously - legally distinct entities - read the RTC Act that the article links to.
Just want to keep it consistant - Djegan 20:42, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
An interesting point regarding the college (why do colleges and universities always attempt to make themselves much older than immediately apparent) - as if age is more important than quality. It might be better to include a list of "defunct institutions" - which could be very appropriate, my point with Cork is that the school and college were distinct before the merger and maintained this distinction after the merger with the institute. Djegan 22:43, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I am not so sure that their can be an independent institution within a institute of technology without special legislation, it might well be marketed as differently with different signage but this is quite distinct from been legally independent - a special point was made of Cork (Cork School of Music & Crawford College of Art & Design) in the Regionaal Technical Colleges Acts - their has never been an order for a designating a "School of Art and Design" in Limerick in any capacity within the RTC system (or NCEA/HETAC) theirfore I conclude that the school must be an integral part of the institute as distinct from an indepedent college within it.
The strange thing about LSAD (as you call it) is that it is does not appear in which up to date until 2002 and pretty definitive, nor does it appear on - I am not trying to be awkward or difficult - if the school is independent - legally - then by all means portray it as such else when in doubt (leave it out). My rational toward asking for additional "proof" is that occassionally their is a tendency (or tempation) in Wikipedia to include something for the sake of it - for instance how many improper spellings (often obvious) of Irish words - because the way in which wiki feeds into so many projects it is too easy to poison the web with incorrect facts deliberate or otherwise. Djegan 23:25, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

St. Mary's Cathedral[edit]

Hi there,

I would like to know as to why you saw fit to move this page to Limerick Cathedral? It is not, nor ever has been, referred to as such. For one thing, Limerick also has a second cathedral, St. John's Cathedral. Please do not move this page again.

zoney talk 15:51, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Because it's not wikipedia standard to name cathedrals only by the saints they are dedicated to (you can surely see why doing so would be problematic?). If there are two Limerick cathedrals, the page should be named "St Mary's Cathedral, Limerick". (By the way, the dot in the abbrev of saint is also generally dropped, though this isn't strictly enforced it makes things easier.) Joe D (t) 15:56, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
(it's not "wikipedia standard" to name cathedrals at all - usually those who built the cathedral name it!) zoney talk 16:55, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I'm refering to the page name, as I'm sure was obvious. With the regards to appending the city name, I'm aware that it's only used for diambiguation only, and that's why it should be named as such. There were three St Mary's Cathedrals on the Irish list alone, there must be many throughout the world, and people may be searching for any one of them, not just the one in Limerick. Joe D (t) 17:46, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)


I'd like your opinion at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration. Thanks. Chameleon 12:23, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

River Lee (Ireland)[edit]

Thanks for having edited all the links (again). It occurred to me that would have been a better name for the (non-existant) page, but only after I'd already done all bar about two of them and I so didn't have the energy to go back and do it all again. Thank you. :o) — OwenBlacker 15:30, Nov 24, 2004 (UTC)


Hi there. Thanks for the welcome (and the subsequent edits :-)). I'm just dipping my toes into this stuff & am still finding my feet. I'll try not to screw up! - Pcassidy

Style guide[edit]

Zoney, thanks for fixing the template. Maurreen 13:43, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Zoney, thanks for your comments about references. Can you clarify for me whether you meant anything other than the quotation near the beginning? Maurreen 08:27, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Rail map[edit]


You need to move Farranfore to between Killarney and Tralee rather than Killarney and Mallow as now.




Thanks for the explanation. I appreciate your attitude, which seems to be one of what I would characterise as "healthy scepticism". I, too, have seen commissions whose purpose is to rubberstamp what has already been determined to be "The Way It Shall Be" by "The Powers That Be" and "Those In the Know", and am not suprised that this would be another one. Anything that can improve any system of voting should be followed up on IMO; that way we have no more "Florida 2000s", or current Ukraines. Rlquall 03:19, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Irish Physical Map[edit]

You created the physical map of Ireland, right?

Aran Island (Donegal) is Arranmore according to everyone but British map makers :-). Arainn Mhór in Irish, Arranmore to us natives. Only the Brits call it Aran Island, and insist on doing so usually till someone in the pub tells them not to on their first night on the island

Kiand 23:23, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I'll fix it :-) when I get a chance! zoney talk 00:10, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

St. Johns[edit]

Nice photo of st. Johns. Did you take it yourself? Seabhcán 13:58, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Yep. It's not ideal - the sky came out perfect with the building under-exposed. I did some photo-shopping - but it's only barely acceptable and the lighting is now somewhat false (I did avoid washing out the sky though!).
zoney talk 14:02, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Irish cats[edit]

Hope my little intervention helps. Filiocht 08:37, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

I have emptied Category:Transportation in Ireland by moving everything to Category:Transport in Ireland. I guess there needs to be a Category:Transport companies of Ireland to replace Category:Transportation companies of Ireland? Nice work on the Transport in Ireland intro. I take it you agree with the page move? Filiocht 12:08, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

EU map on[edit]

Hi Zoney! I just noticed that the excellent map you uploaded at ga:An tAontas Eorpach has An Úkráin for Ukraine - the correct word is An Úcráin. Would you be able to change it? --Kwekubo 22:53, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the barnstar[edit]

Don't know what to say, really. I think you do tons more than I: the towns of Ireland project stunned me. Filiocht 08:26, Dec 6, 2004 (UTC)


Regarding your addition a while back to Hurley (stick) - you said people mostly buy hurleys from local craftsmen. I'm not posing as an expert, but I would have thought most people (like myself) would buy them from sports shops. Am I wrong? JOHN COLLISON [ Ludraman] 20:54, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Article Licensing[edit]

Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 1000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" template into their user page, but there are other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

Option 1
I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:


Option 2
I agree to [[Wikipedia:Multi-licensing|multi-license]] all my contributions to any [[U.S. state]], county, or city article as described below:

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace "{{DualLicenseWithCC-BySA-Dual}}" with "{{MultiLicensePD}}". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know what you think at my talk page. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. Ram-Man (comment) (talk)[[]] 14:11, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)

Money copyright status[edit]

Zoney, yes, I understand. Euro bills have a copyright notice. But the general copyright status of money images is in dispute right now. I'm tagging all money graphics as {{money}} so that the copyright status can be determined and changed in one location, instead of on hundreds of different images. (Right now, there are hundreds of untagged money pics, since no one is quite sure how they should be tagged. If they are all tagged {{money}}, then once we agree on the status, we can set that in one place.)

You can weigh into the debate here or here, or you can change the template's wording here. Quadell (talk) (help)[[]] 15:55, Dec 10, 2004 (UTC)

Okay, what do you think the money template should say? How should these images be tagged? Quadell (talk) (help)[[]] 18:51, Dec 10, 2004 (UTC)


Hi. I don't know how often you visit the List of European cities with alternative names these days, but there has been a controversy on its talk page for the past ten days or so, and I was wondering if you would care to review it and possibly intervene. Thank you. Pasquale 18:19, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

EU map[edit]

hey, the map of the EU you uploaded shows the whole of Cyprus as being in the EU rather than just the Greek bit. Is this an accident, or do i not understand euro politics very well (probably the later). The bellman 03:17, 2004 Dec 18 (UTC)

It's deliberate. Officially speaking, to everyone except Turkey, the Republic of Cyprus (Greek Cypriot) is the only official government for the island. The northern occupation, though a de-facto self-governed territory, is not recognised internationally. It's all a bit hairy, but the simplest solution is to draw the whole island in as EU territory - it won't keep everyone happy but the alternative is more controversial. zoney talk 03:23, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Irish places[edit]

Hi there,

I notice you've made a group of edits to Irish location articles. I would suggest that the "stub" format for external links and see also is retained on those articles which are stubs. You will find it is an accepted option, and one that we use for Irish location article which aren't well developed (it looks tidier when there are no other sections/headings).

Also, as regards Northern Ireland... By and large, Irish topics are treated apolitically on Wikipedia thus far. Certainly as far as geographic articles are concerned, the island is treated as a whole. After all, the current partition is only a modern political development, and the region, while part of the United Kingdom, it physically/geographically, culturally, etc. remains Irish (the culture aspect is certainly trickier, some aspects are "simply British", many are most definitely truly Irish, and others are fudged as "Northern Irish", though that is a somewhat contrived term).

In summary, I would suggest you rename the UK geo-stub to GB geostub.

It does not make sense to distinguish the separate jurisdictions in Ireland when referring to things in an apolitical geographic sense.

Thanks, zoney talk 17:00, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The heading format may be accepted, but it seems the Ireland places are the only articles that actually use the format. Which looks tidier is highly subjective, and I prefer the standard heading format.
As for the towns, these are not entirely geographic and apolitical: in an encyclopedia article the country which a town is in is just as relevant and important as its physical location, and these stubs rightly mention the political geography in the article. Using either stub 'plate would be factually correct, but IMO following political boundaries is more useful in the case of categorising stubs (we may differ on this because I use the templates in order to categorise the articles, while you may be more intrested in the text they add to the article). I am particularly against using Great Britain as an area, as it has no political meaning whatsoever, and excludes all those other little islands that make up the UK, and belong on this category.
Perhaps this is one of those cases where Northern Ireland does derserve its own boilerplate: one that includes both categories? Joe D (t) 17:24, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

EU map - Thanks![edit]

Thanks for help in answering my queries on the current EU map. The US CIA has recently added an entry about the EU to it's World Factbook. See it here: [1].

I don't know if it can be any use to Wikipedia, but hey, it's worth a shot. - Hoshie 10:46, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)